Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, welcome back. My name is Brooklyn, and this is my friend Beth, and you are listening to in between, the podcast.
So I am so excited to have Beth here today. Beth, will you tell us a little bit about yourself?
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Yes. So I am a licensed clinical therapist, and I have been a therapist probably for the past 10 years. I graduated from Liberty University, and I've really enjoyed going to that program just because it does both the spiritual aspect and the mental health aspect. Connected, which I think is really important when you're working with therapy.
And I Also, I have five children, and they range from the ages of 32 down to 22, and that's been a delight. Two boys and three girls. And probably my greatest joy has been being a mother, using my skills, first on them, and now expanding that into other people's lives.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Yeah. So you started. I mean, I, you know, I, we. I am very good friends with her daughter. We've been good friends since high school, so. But you went to school. When did you start? Because it was after I. I actually.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Started when I was in Gillette here the first time.
[00:01:16] Speaker A: Okay, so when, like high school. When we were in high school.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: When did.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: When Katie was in high school.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: When Katie was in high school. Yes, when she was in high school. So during the day I would do my schoolwork, and then at night I would do children go to basketball games and volleyball games. But then I finished in 2015 or 2014, and I started my business in 2015.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: What led you to counseling?
[00:01:43] Speaker B: You know, once again, I really think that my greatest joy has been being a mother. And I realize more and more in counseling that you really are reparenting.
A lot of people that have not had that kind of experience where someone's seen them and believed in them.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Value them. So getting to build that relationship and that connection and build that for them, that they are worthy and valuable was probably the biggest part for me.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: That makes sense. My next question was going to be, what's the most rewarding? But that sounds like that's what it is, huh?
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Very rewarding.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: And so then my next question is, what is the most challenging thing that you deal with then? Is it the same as parenting? Sometimes they're like, sometimes they're defined.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: Yes, we do see that in the counseling office. We definitely. We call that resistance where they are like, we don't want to change. But I think, yes. Even just like your children. Right. It's that consistency. One thing I, I love to work with in my clients is that you have a circle security as a child, as he's growing up. So if you ever think of a child as they start to grow, crawl, they crawl out and explore their environment and they come back to the mother and the more secure they get with that parent, the more they can explore because there's always a place to return. So I see that for my clients that as I'm working with them and they know every week they can come back, have a place that they're loved and seen and valued.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: They start to make more friends, they start to create new environments where they're being successful, that they can come back and see that they're valued. So the challenging part of that is when you feel like you're there writing that course with them and they really don't want to change and they don't really want to do the work. They want the support, but maybe not wanting to truly.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Do the hard.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: It's hard, it's hard to grow. And so I think that's the biggest component for me is just you can't make somebody want to change.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: That's so true.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: To just continue to, to push, but allowing them to choose that safe space.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: My children are crazy. And they will always wander off and go and do their own thing. But my sister in law, Katie, you know, she's a counselor as well and she's always like, that's very good. That means they feel attached to you. Like, does it though? Cause they're just like, bye mom.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: And that's exactly right. They know that you're there to catch them. In fact, one of my favorite things with children is that when they don't have a safe attachment, they, you can know because they can walk like say into a nursery and the child is sitting in the middle of the floor and if, if the mother walks in the room to go get in, that child just looks at them and turns away.
That says already that child has learned that they cannot be safe with that parent because they don't know for sure. If they crawled over to them.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: Yeah, they'd be accepted.
[00:04:39] Speaker B: So once again, I'm just trying to be that person. I tried very hard to never miss a point appointments. I try very consistency because the biggest part of people is that they want to know that you're consistent.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: That makes so much sense because, you know, it has been hard because I wanted you to be on the podcast last semester season and then this season and it's hard to schedule with you, but because you are so committed to your clients, which is so good. And I totally see it in a different light. Because, yeah, as a parent, I want to show up consistently.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: Right. And if you do, then that child knows that. That they can count on you.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: So do you work with children through adults, or do you prefer.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: I think my oldest client once was 91.
She had to walk up a flight of stairs. And I was always so proud of her. And she'd had a death of her daughter and she wanted to continue to grow.
And so that was my oldest client, and she was lovely. But, yes, I do work with children. I say the ages of four to start with, play therapy and love, the high school years, the college years, the young mothers. Those are all my favorite because women are just changing and growing and developing so much during those ages.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: And it's really fun to watch and be a part of that, of what they see themselves as and watch it grow and change.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: So we are today talking about through this season. I don't know if you've been watching the previous episodes. You should if you haven't, because some good stuff. But today we're talking about God as a redeemer and savior. We've been talking about different attributes and just really getting him out of this box that we create to fit into our narratives, into our lives the way that we want him to. And just we really desire to get to actually know him and his heart, to have a better and closer relationship with him. And so today I wanted to talk about redeemer and savior with you because I believe that you have probably seen that a lot throughout your job. Does that make sense?
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: And I don't know if I explained that to you when I asked.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think actually I've had an epiphany, for lack of better words, just in the last week or so with my own walk in that that's been really interesting, that I think I can take into most of my clients. But I would say that I've just begun to realize how much I had a transactional relationship with God, which is, if I do this, then God will give me that. And so when I had that belief system as my savior, it was more like, I have to earn that without even realizing it growing up in the church. And so we talk about.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: I've been talking about that. That. And I know you probably know this, but like, head of knowledge to heart knowledge. I've been talking about that so much this season because like you said, you didn't even realize that you had that relationship with him because you knew, like, you probably knew all of the attributes. You knew he was loving, he was good. He forgave you, but like, the belief system in your heart didn't. Didn't know that.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: And I didn't even realize it.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: It's hard.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: And it was like through his holy spirit literally opened my eyes within the last week. And it was kind of like I was realizing no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't fix the tough situations in my life. I couldn't make them better. So of course I would just try harder and try to do more good things, more right things. And all of a sudden it was like there was just this moment where God just said, what if you are all that you need to be in me, regardless of. Of the good or bad of the circumstances, like, I love you. And it was almost like, wow. Like, it isn't about if I'm good or bad. Like, you just love me and I don't have to keep trying harder to.
So bringing that into my counseling, it's a big deal, right? Because a lot of people in counseling, you want to see the story written to where you see change, but sometimes it's a slower process. It's. It's. It's a process where you don't always understand what God is doing in their lives. I mean, I'm almost 60, and I've just now kind of grappling with the fact that I couldn't have worked any harder. It wasn't me doing that. So I think with my clients, I've had seen some change radically, quickly, and I've had other ones slower, not wanting to believe truth. I always say the truth will set you free. And it was amazing. When I really grabbed onto that idea, I felt lighter, like, yeah, find yourself feeling in bondage or you can't do good enough.
You have a body response to that. You actually will feel it in your system and your body will.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Like physically. Yes.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: So when you're really believing the truth. And if I hear my clients ever say I feel free, I like, there are balloons coming out of the ceiling right now. Like, this is the whole goal, why we do this.
But that's the redemption piece that.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: To be walking in.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: Because there is bondage like that, and it can be.
Is hardcore as drugs and alcohol and things like that. But it can also be good works. Like, I just need to try really hard. Yeah. And I also had. I'm like that. Or. Well, I'm still working on it, but I used to be.
Have that idea as well. And I got to a place where I just heard him say, like, what if I love you? Right now.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: Because I'm always like, God, I will be better. I will be better once I do this. Then it'll be good. Like, I'm sorry about yesterday, whatever I yelled, and. And he's like, what if I love you as you are, just without trying hard work on it.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: So with me, I had taken to the point of I was looking at my results of my life, like, this isn't working out the way I thought it should. So I'll just try harder to fix that because he must be mad at me. He must be upset with me because.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Bad things are happening.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Bad things are happening. And when I realized the bad things aren't necessarily bad, right? Like, they're not. They're not fun, they're not what I'd want. But what if those bad, bad things are actually making me who I'm supposed to be? And I can trust that process and not look at it as my failure.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: And he. And then, yeah, that verse comes to mind of he works all things out for our good and his glory. And so even in those hard things. And last week we talked about the anger of God and that he does get angry, but it's because he hates evil, he hates sin. He hates that it takes us from him. And.
But then there also is that free will component. And a lot of times sin is just rampant in our world and we get hurt by it and situations stink sometimes because.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: But I think it's to take it.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: Then he makes it good. Right.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: If we trust him. Right. Like that's where I was trying to fix it. I try to just trust him, that he's got it and it's okay and he's not mad and he will use the hard things.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: So good. Yes, I agree.
So have you. So you said you've seen, you've seen in your counseling, you've seen people like, radically be changed by God.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: And I really believe that's the Holy Spirit. Right. Yeah, I can. And of course, as a counselor, I can pray continually and I can ask God to help that client find freedom. And it's fun when I see them get it. And you see this quick change. I have one that just is now starting her degree at Liberty University.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: She wants to be a counselor, too.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: She's becoming a counselor because she's. She just. She followed in truth. And now it's like, I want to use my story to help others. And she's going at it and she's.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: Just total, like, life change overnight.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: She's 50 years old, so it's not Something I've seen that. I've seen a few go into counseling after working with me because they begin to realize that God takes their stories and what they've been through. They can help other people, too. So I've seen that a lot. I've seen really tough stories that just, like, really are hard to sleep at night.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: That. The depth that I see, the resilience of so many of my clients, especially that know Christ, continue to come to the other side of freedom.
[00:12:46] Speaker A: Because the changes, like the circumstances that. That make it hard to sleep, that are probably just so awful, don't always change.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: No.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Or stop.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: It makes it. It's hard for me as a therapist. Like, one of my clients was so bad, I would find myself throwing up after I met.
Because you're so compassionate. Couldn't even tolerate what the story was.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:10] Speaker B: And so that was. That was a hard. That was hard for me. But that person, actually, it was really cool because they had such a terrible story that I would. Started having her to paint because actually, you store trauma in one side of your brain that only the arts can really bring it out. There's one side of your brain, you talk out therapy, but there's another side that the art and the music brings it out.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: I've heard people say that, like, I write songs because it's therapeutic.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: Right. So they. I had her paint. She hadn't painted for 20 years, so she started painting, and she would bring in these paintings every week that were just black and scary and horrific. But by the end of. Probably took about a year, she had some of her paintings in the front of a store because she had so developed her healing process and beauty and God's word. She'd put in all her paintings. And I have a few of them, and they're probably the most priceless for me because I watched her go from darkness into light.
[00:14:08] Speaker A: Like a. Like a. Like a. You can see that in front of you through her art.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: It was phenomenal.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: And that is, like. That is God's redemption still. And. And the other thing to remember, I think, is, like, that God is never done, not until we're in heaven and we're made perfect. And.
But there are glimpses of him redeeming things, and there will be things that, like I said, we don't see change.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: But he does change us.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: And brings the healing we need. Right.
[00:14:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
So have you ever been in a situation you can do personally or you can talk counseling where you doubted like, that. You were like, this is not. This is Unredeemable. This is. God can't save this. And if not, that's awesome. I'm just curious.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: I think all of us struggle in our lives, from our own personal lives to counseling, where it's very quick that we can turn to the doubt. The doubt. I don't think that God can redeem this.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Oh, my biggest question is always like, how, like how and how are you even gonna do that? And then it's crazy how he does it.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: But yeah, and I think that's just it. I don't think the way we see it and the way he sees it is always the same. And so, yeah, hard thing. Once again, I think I look at my job as a counselor is just to keep showing up and being consistent for that person, letting them know that they are loved everywhere week. And that regardless of what God chooses to do, sometimes I see little increments, movements of what God's doing in their lives. Like, I can see him turning the way they think, turning the situation.
Because some of my clients, I've had for a while, and other times, you know, it, they just get done and they don't want to do the work anymore, and so they quit the work. And I really encourage people to stay the course because that resiliency is so phenomenal. I always tell my clients that you can have a baby, you can see if they're resilient or not by putting the gate up to the door. And some babies go up to the gate at the door and they see it and they stop and they sit down and they cry. Some babies crawl up to that gate and they go up and over the gate, they figure a way up.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Is that resilient? Because my son is very resilient because.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: He'S going to figure a way up and over. And so. And I think, I mean, I really believe that, you know, we stay in it when we stay in the story and we continue to grow, we continue to show up, surrender back to him.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: Right?
[00:16:38] Speaker B: He is faithful and he. I think, I mean, God still can rescue. But even the prodigal son had to come to a place of saying, not my way, but your way, God.
I think if we don't quit and say no more than that, we have.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Free will like we were talking about. And, and yeah, you're right that in the prodigal son, God or the father, which represented God, welcomed him back with open arms at a party. But you're right, the. The sun did have to be like, this way is not working.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: And I. I have to change it. I have to change it. So I think that's the sad part for me when I feel like people just want to quit because it's too hard to keep showing up or it's too hard to do the work, and I'm just going to go back into my. I'll say. I always tell, like, we want to sit in our stinky diapers. We want to stay in the way that we feel comfortable. Even though it's a stinky diaper, right?
[00:17:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Even though it's not the best way.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: So that's. That's where I think, where you worry about some stories not being redeemed. God is able to. Absolutely.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: He is able to. Yes. But they do have to turn to him, too.
I would say, though, even, like, through my story, and I've shared it with you before, but, like, in high school, I came to know God and then I went to youth group, and it was amazing. Katie and I went together, and there was so much goodness and truth spoken to me. And then I kind of fell away from God when traumatic things had happened. And then, let's see, like, 10 years later, those things came back to me, and it was like seeds were planted and they were dormant when I was, like, lost child. But then when I did turn back, it was like I just remembered so much truth and they were able to grow.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: So what kind of happened for you? Out of curiosity. So when you came back, switch this thing out.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: That's fine.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
So, like, when that happened, what was it that really pulled you back? As in, was it people surrounding you that were walking with Christ, or did you really just feel the Holy Spirit just calling you back?
[00:18:45] Speaker A: So it's kind of hard because the first time that I. Because there was like, you're a kid and then you're told God is really. You're like, okay, and then. And you believe it. But then there's a point when you have to choose, right? Like, do I believe this for me, or. Because my parents told me to, and we didn't go to church a lot or anything like that. And so I was really wrestling with that. One night at Youth, we had Travis Shannon as our youth pastor, and he gave a great sermon, and then they were playing music, and I just. The Holy Spirit literally came over me, and I just knew he was real. Like, I had been asking him, like, if you're real, you gotta show me. Like, I just don't know. They lied to me about Santa. Like, I don't know.
And so that day, and I remembered, and I hate crying in front of people. And I just started crying. And it was around a bunch of teens who. It was embarrassing, but I was just like, nope, he's real. And I knew it.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: It was a real moment for me.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: It really was. But then I never learned how to have a relationship with him. So then I kind of was in that transactional and that hard place of like, okay, I know you're real now, but what do I do with that? And so many terrible things happened between and that. And then.
So I remember I would sometimes, like, I would continue to pray, but I didn't really understand that he cared and loved me. I didn't understand that he wanted me. And so we had a very surface level relationship. And then when I had Quinn, I think that is when I kind of understood.
And again, I think it was. It had to have been the Holy Spirit, because. But I was just like, no, I need him. Like, and I need to know who him, and she needs to know him. And so I just started reading all these books and diving into the Bible and joining Bible studies and trying out churches and. And then, yeah, I just. He. As soon as I turned back to him, he. It was like the prodigal son, like, grabbed me into his arms and was like, all right, let's go. We're going to. I'm going to show you who I am. And so that was really ridiculous.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: One thing I probably have noticed, the main thing that changes people the most in my office is when they understand that they are loved by God and that they are a daughter, a son of the most high God. So their true identity is where you start to really see that redemption story come alive. Just kind of like. Like, you. You understood he was real, but you had to understand that he loved you.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I had to have a relationship with him. Yes.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: And that relationship is where everything shifts, Right? We can't try harder. We don't have to. And even though. Right, so.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: And like you said, we continue. We continue to learn and we continue to grow, and we continue. He continues to. To sanctify us and redeem us throughout our entire lives. And ultimately, though, I mean, that's what the Bible is, right? Like, that is. The New Testament is all about God redeeming the world and, you know, Jesus dying on the cross and redeeming all of our sins.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: And the night with my daughter, I was talking to her just kind of about my thought process and then how I was kind of trying to earn or why things were bad. And she just looked at me and she said, mom, that Is just not the gospel. So here the child is telling the parent, once again reminding her of the truth.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: Gospel just is for all of us that when we say yes to Jesus, he's able to give us all the love we could ever want.
[00:22:00] Speaker A: And it goes again from that head to heart knowledge of, do I actually believe that?
Yeah. Do I believe that God sent his son to die for me? Like, if you were the only person on earth, he would have still sent his son to die for you, to redeem you, to bring you back to him. And if you wrestle with that, that's totally understandable. That's hard to conceive, especially if your parents were not good examples of that. But I would encourage you, if you're listening and you feel like that, to just to pray and ask. Because that's what I did, is I just prayed. I was like, please, just show me. Just show me. And he does.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: That's. I had a friend once that came to me, a high school friend, and said to me, how do I get what you had? She knew that in high school, I walked with the Lord and tried to know him. And I said, you know, all you have to do is invite him in. All you have to do is say, come in. And she said. She went home that day and she prayed for two hours. Just, please come in. Please come in. That's all she said. All of a sudden, she heard him say, I am in. And now her whole family has been saved since then. And she's been on missions trips, and her children have been on mission trips, and they had. But it just was literally saying, please come. I watch.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: It's almost like you have to be in a desperate. A desperate place for him. Like, you have to want him to be there.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: I always say, he's a gentleman. He will never push his way.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah, that's. That is so good. I. Yeah. I had a dream. I don't know if I'm gonna share this, but I had a dream the other night. I don't normally have dreams like that. I mean, I dream a lot, but this was, like, from God, I swear. So I was dreaming that he was at my bedroom door knocking. And I was like, just desperately wanted him in my. In my room. I don't know what that means. I need to. I've been praying about him. Like, I don't get it, but I, like, desperately. I was like, no, I ha. You have to come in, come in, come in. And he's like, get up and open the door. And I woke up opening up My door. I was like, whoa, that was crazy. And so I went and I journaled about it and I was still praying about it.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: But, yes, you have to say thing, come in. I want you to come in. He is waiting, but he has to be invited.
[00:24:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And then he. And then once you do that and you surrender your situations, even if they're awful, he can turn them for good. But you do have to just trust him with it. Right, Right.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: Trust is the biggie.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, these are kind of shorter podcasts, but do you have anything else that you feel led to say or anything other thoughts that you had?
[00:24:37] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I just. I think I really highly encourage people to look into counseling and. Because really, a lot of our issues struggle back with our childhood. So if, you know, even those who would say, I had the perfect childhood, we still get caught in shame behaviors or thought processes that allow us to try to fix our lives in ways that are unhealthy through addictions or, you know, poor behaviors, which bleeds into the next generation. So it makes sense to me that when you're Quinn, you were like, I need to do something different.
So regardless, if you're a young person, high school, college person, newly married, have children like 91, I love that.
I think to continue to really allow yourself the freedom to work through those places that are hidden and pushed down, necessarily keep them from you developing and then working out of an unhealthy. The coping mechanisms.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And it's so, so nice to have a counselor that will.
Will turn to God too, and pray with you and to bring the word of God into your sessions and things like that, which I know you recently moved to the Life center here in Gillette, Wyoming, and they do that there. And that's where I go. So, I mean, I love it there. I'm so glad that you're there now.
[00:26:03] Speaker B: It's wonderful. They all love the Lord. It's fun. We can. We can talk with each other, share with each other, learn with each other.
But, yeah, we all have the same value system, which is that we put God first and want to bring people toward him in their healing journey because.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: He is the redeemer.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: He's the healer.
[00:26:19] Speaker A: Yes, yes. That's so good. I want to end with just this verse, and it's from Psalms 34, 22, and it says, but the Lord will redeem those who serve Him. No one who takes refuge in him will be condemned. And it just kind of goes back to everything we've been saying. Just have to take ref. Refuge in him, and he will redeem you. He will not condemn you.
And, yeah, that's kind of where I want to end it.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Well, thank you. That was fun.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: Yes. Thank you for being on here.
