Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi. Welcome back. My name is Brooklyn, and my friend Chris is here joining us today. You are listening to the in between podcast, and we are just so glad that you're here this season. If you've been following along, we've been talking about attributes of God, and I've gotten the privilege to talk to a few people that God placed on my heart and hear their testimonies about how God has shown his attributes through them. So today we're talking to Chris. Chris, thanks for coming.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: You're welcome.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: Will you tell us about yourself?
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Sure.
My name is Chris Dickey, and I am married to Richard. We have two children. They're both married. We have Alicia. She's married to Preston.
And then Ryan, who's married to Rebecca, and they all live in Casper.
And we have a new grandbaby named Miriam.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: Yes. And she's. She's five months old.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Four.
Four months in a week, I think, right?
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Yeah. She was born right after my youngest, so that's fun.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: So I asked you to come on so that you could talk about an attribute, and I asked you, when we were talking, if there was one that you felt like really was a theme throughout your life so far. And what did you choose?
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Faithfulness.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Faithfulness. So do you want to kind of explain why or how that came to you?
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
So God has shown his faithfulness to me all through my life, but I had a period of years where I was in probably the deepest valley I've ever been in and hope I don't ever have to go back there, but it was between 2007 and 2009, and I have notes because I'm nervous. That's okay.
And so Rich and I were going through a really hard time with our marriage.
It was possibly ending at that time. He was actually facing some prison time.
I won't go into great detail on that, but we're an open book. So if anybody's listening or watching and they want to know more of that story, I know Rich and I are both always open to talk about it.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: Which I love about you guys.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's not a secret. It's just.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: You know, not enough time in this podcast to go through it.
So, anyway, he was facing that prison time.
We had to sell our house because with. With me on one income, there was no way that I was going to be able to make a house payment on my own. And all the other children were born. Our children were born. I think Ryan at that time was seven or eight, and Alicia, I think she would have been 12, 13, right in there.
So we. We ended up living with family, thank goodness, because we would have been homeless if we didn't have family support, which we did. And I'm always going to be very grateful for that.
But I was basically, you know, facing, you know, is my marriage going to survive this?
I don't have a house anymore that I loved. I have two kids that I'm gonna have to raise on my own on one income. And.
[00:03:19] Speaker A: And they're, like, where they're, like, kind of aware of.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: Oh, for sure.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: So that. To throw that in. And then my mom, at the same time, had been diagnosed with a terminal illness, and so I was going through that as well.
So it was a lot.
[00:03:38] Speaker A: It was just.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: It was a lot in a very short period of time.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: So tell me why faithfulness is what, like, was the theme through that? Because, like, you just tell the story like that. It's like. Well, that doesn't sound.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Yeah, very. That just sounds like a bad thing. Sounds bad.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:56] Speaker B: Well, during that time, I had a solid enough foundation in my faith that I wasn't. I wasn't angry at God. I. I mean, I knew that this wasn't God's fault. And I drew into the Word, and I think one of your questions before this was, like, some of our favorite verses, and some. Somebody kept bringing up a psalm to me, and then another person would bring up the same psalm to me, and it was Psalm 139.
And that Psalm, if you don't know it, look it up and read it. But it. It talks about how no matter where you go, I mean, God's known you since you were being knitted in the womb, and he. He knows where you are in the future. He knows where you are today, and he knows where you were, where you're coming from. And in a time where I felt really abandoned, really alone, you know, really scared, I. I knew he had my back.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: I knew that he was going to be faithful.
And he was.
I mean, the grace that he has shown me and my family and my marriage and my children, I. I know he is a God of faithfulness.
And so, yeah, that is during that time, too. I also learned to pray the Psalms.
[00:05:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: And I really felt a close connection to David, who wrote most of those Psalms, because he, you know, sometimes when you're going through a hard time, you feel kind of guilty for crying out, you know, or complaining or saying, why go.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Well, it's hard sometimes if you don't have a good relationship with God, to be real and raw with him because you think you need to show up as your best version of yourself. But when you get put in those situations, you have no choice.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Almost.
[00:05:46] Speaker A: You're like, all right, well, this is what I have for you.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: This is what's been dealt to me. And that was very. I mean, just reading those as a prayer, because sometimes when you're that distraught, you don't have the words for a prayer.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: 100. Yeah.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm sure you've been there, too. We've all been there. Like, I don't even know how to pray about this.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: It's. Yeah, it's. It's so humbling, though, to be in that kind of a place. And I know in the midst of it, it is not. It is not fun.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: No.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: And again, like you said, you never want to go back, but.
And I think about times where I've been in that place, too, and how you say you had this, like, basis of faith, and then you knew that he was going to be faithful. I was in a position like that, too. And I can only. I don't even. It's, like, supernatural, right? Like, I did not.
It wasn't because of my faith that I knew he was gonna be faithful.
[00:06:36] Speaker B: It's a peace that passes all understanding the Holy Spirit.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: And so I just knew, like, no matter what, if this turns out the way I want, if it turns out the worst way that it could, that God is going to be there for me. And so it kind of is the same. Like, you just knew. And there's just that peace.
I wanted to find faithfulness really quick. I googled it. Okay. So, Chris, just so sorry.
I go out of order sometimes. That's okay. It's not gonna follow my notes. I know I.
That as you're looking, and sometimes I stray. So I'm very sorry, but thank you so much for your grace.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: I know that God is in this, and he's gonna say what he wants to say.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: He will.
So the definition of faithfulness according to Google is there was two. It said one is remaining loyal or steadfast.
And I put that. We see that, like, throughout the entire Bible. But I'm reading through the Old Testament right now, so it's really prevalent because you see Israel over and over and over. Choose other gods, choose other things, totally disobey him. And he. He does punish them, but then when they cry out to him, he always comes back to them. He always provides for them.
And then the next one was the definition of faithful. It said, true to the facts or original And I thought again that that was so fitting because God is never changing. He will always be faithful. He will died for you.
And so I just really liked those definitions. And I didn't even look up. Sometimes I look up biblical definitions, but I just looked up faithful.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: So back to your story. Was there ever a time when you doubted or no?
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: Not during that time.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: Okay. Oh, but you're in your life.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: But in my life. And it's funny that you mentioned about the Israelites and you know, God kept coming through for them and he provided and he showed his faithfulness and yet they would turn around and how easily we forget.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Gosh. I know.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: And I feel like God put that story in the Bible to maybe help us not feel so bad about how we are, because I do the same thing. I mean, here, here, now, let's fast forward to just last year. You know, God has been with me in my life. Blessings, Grace had some really horrible things happen. He's never failed me.
My son and daughter were pregnant. Daughter in law were pregnant and expecting my first grandchild, their first baby.
Everything was going really good.
She was 34 weeks.
The baby stopped moving. She went in, the baby had died from a cord accident.
So she had to deliver a stillborn baby. His name was Ben.
And for the first time that I can remember in my life, that that was the one time I was angry at God.
I was so angry at him. And I remember, and I know you were kind of walking through it with me because we've been friends.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: And yes.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: I remember calling Mitch here at the church or texting him, I can't remember which. I probably text. And I said, you have to take me off the worship team and worship planning because I am so angry at God. I don't think I should be doing anything.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah, like you don't want to lead other people.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: I don't want to lead other people.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: Into worship when you're not worshiping him.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I was because I was so angry at him.
And I just, I doubted in my heart what my sincerity towards God was at that time. And so then I went through a time of, you know, okay, so it's okay to be mad and it's okay to question.
And, and I went to counseling and I, and I learned some really good points from pointers from Beth about, you know, maybe, maybe this was, you know, God didn't cause this to happen, but God can, can teach you through it. And I did learn something about myself. I learned that maybe I hadn't put him in total Control or kingship of my life. And I idol. I. I had idolatry towards, you know, maybe that baby that was coming or other things. And not for a minute do I believe God caused this to happen. But I do believe that it helped realize a character in myself and let God heal it.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Does that make sense?
[00:11:02] Speaker A: No, it does make sense. And I do remember, obviously. I'm not going to ever forget that time. It was awful.
And I remember you texting us, too. And since you said about Mitch, I'll just say this, too.
Just. You're like, can you. I can't even. Like, I'm just so mad at him. I can't even talk to him right now. Like, I don't even want to look at him.
And I remember my. Our friend Karen and I were like, okay, we'll. We'll stand in the gap for you. Like, and we.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: And you did.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: We kept praying and praying and praying for you, and we're like, that's okay. He, like. Like, take your time. It's okay. He still loves you. And, like, it's just hard because, yeah, God did not cause that to happen. But I remember you saying to me, like, he could have stopped it.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: I wrote that down. I still. I'm like, he could have stopped this. If you wanted to, he could have stopped it. And.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: And that's how. That's why we get angry. Because it's like, you have.
And I know you do.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah. But.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: And I think, too, like, in my mind, I was thinking, okay, all of these other bad things that have happened in my life have been either, you know, people's. Other people's sin or my sin that brought something in that was a bad outcome or with. In my mom's case, you know, people. People just. When they get older, they sometimes get sick and they die. But, you know, a baby.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Who did.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: Innocent.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: You know. Yeah.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: Hard.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: It was a hard thing to wrap my mind.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: Walk through.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: So tell me about the other side of that.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: The other side. Well, sorry. No, I am. That's fine.
I lived it. I should just know it off the top of my head.
I think I learned that, you know, I knew that God hadn't caused it. I just wondered why God hadn't prevented it. And I think we need to remember when things happen to us in our lives that we live in a fallen world.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, God wanted a perfect world for us. His intention was to have perfect relationship.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: We were supposed to have perfect, healthy bodies.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: Supposed to. Yeah. It was not his intention for Our world to be the way that it is.
[00:13:10] Speaker B: So instead of blaming God, you know, I had to refocus. And it's like, this isn't God. This is the world. And bad things happen in the world that don't make sense. And our promise is heaven. I mean, we're. Everything is going to be perfect there.
And, you know, God loves us so much that he sent his son to die. Can you imagine your own child to die on the cross? So we have that promise of eternity with him.
And when you look at it from. From a kingdom point of view, I mean, life is hard, but it's going to get better. And when I was kind of thinking about this today, a verse came into my head and I looked it up, and John 16:33 says, I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace.
In this world you will have trouble. But take heart, I have overcome the world.
And so, you know, I'm going to have valleys. You're going to have valleys coming up. But.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: And some of them are not going to be fair. And some of them are just going to. Yes, be awful.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: It's going to be. Maybe somebody else did messed up really bad, and now you get to live with it.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: But you know what? When you look at it in the full scheme of things, God's been already faithful. We know who won.
So no matter what is thrown at us in the world, we're going to be okay. Because he's grieving with us, he's laughing with us, he's right there beside us. He's going to get you through it. Everything that happens, he will bring to his glory if you allow it. I truly believe that.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: I do, too. And I talked. I don't know when this one's going to air, but a couple weeks ago, about how he hates evil, he hates sin, he hates evil, he hates that it was this way. And that is why he has this ultimate plan to bring it all back together. And there will be a day when it is made perfect.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: And, yeah, until then, like, that's why I believe that Jesus cried over Lazarus, knowing he would be raised from the dead, but saying like, I still am grieving with you. I still. My heart still hurts with yours, even though I know how this ends.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: And so even in the midst, you can know that he is sitting there grieving with you. Is sitting there hurt with you.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
So what would you say to those who maybe are feeling abandoned right now by God?
Maybe they don't believe it. His faithfulness to them, I would say, take heart.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: No matter what you're going through, God is going to.
He's going to bring it to his glory. If you let him. You have to let him know in those times, even though he didn't cause it, it might be a time that he is trying to teach you something.
Because I think he uses every opportunity to grow us.
So I think it's really important to be still and listen to him, because there's probably something he really is trying to get you to learn. Not that he caused it. Again, I don't want people to hear.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: That he didn't cause it so that you would learn that.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: But he's going to use it. Yes, he's going to use it anyway. And so I think if you do that with. When you're going through that like God, how can I bring glory to you in this?
He's going to be faithful. I can tell you from everything I've gone through, he's going to be faithful. Fast forward a year. I have a new baby granddaughter. She was born almost a year to the date that Ben was stillborn, two weeks earlier than that. But I mean, he's. He's a God of restoration.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: That's so true. So true. So another thing I just want to come back to is like, if you are in that space, if you're listening and you're in that space that Chris was at and that I've been at and that almost everyone I know has been at some point where you just don't even feel like you can look at God. Like you're just.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: You're so mad.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: You're just so mad at the situation, and evil, for one. Yes, of course. If you can realize that God hates it just as much as you. Yes, of course. But if you are in a space being honest and vulnerable with your friends, even when you're in a place of leadership, like you are in a place of leadership, and to know that somebody who does lead and does a great job at it still can be knocked down sometimes.
But then be vulnerable about it and be like, but I don't want to be here.
And then have your friends stand in the gap.
I just think that's so important. And that's why God gives us community.
And so I guess what I'm saying is, if you're in that space, don't be afraid to tell somebody.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Absolutely. Because what Satan wants is to isolate you.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And so tell someone. Be like, I'm just so mad at. I don't even know what I believe right now, Just be honest. It could be with one person, and they can pray for you and they can help you, and it will. It will be okay. Eventually.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I believe that you and Karen and my other friends of faith that were standing in the gap is what made the difference.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: That was such a beautiful thing.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: It was so hard, but, yeah, it was. It was. God did use it for good as well.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Well, do you have anything else you want to add?
[00:18:31] Speaker B: Nope. Okay.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Christine. Chris. Chris was reluctant, but felt like she had to be obedient by coming on, and so I'm just very grateful that we got to hear your story. And thank you for being vulnerable and raw and. Yeah, thank you.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Welcome.
